Biz: I think focusing on that opposes the atomization and alienation that social media does to us all.

Reggaeton is sexual dancing music; it’s all about liberating yourself and moving your body. By discovering my sexuality [through music], I’m doing my past self a favor. I’m trying to be the star I was envisioning, or the girl I needed, when I was young.Isabella: There aren’t a lot of women in reggaeton. Especially in Honduras, the only recognized reggaeton artist is one guy. There are amazing woman producers, but they’re hard to find, especially Latina producers. But it’s growing, and it’s inspiring to see [that growth] and to infiltrate this man’s world. Isabella Lovestory: Sex is everywhere, and to say otherwise is just maintaining shame about it. Aesthetically, I love eroticism and the darkness [of sexuality].

Biz: You have both been photographed by Richard Kern, who’s well known for his explorations of female eroticism. This conversation is happening at an interesting time, especially in relation to his work, because we’re living in an unprecedented era in terms of image-making, the female erotic, and ownership of those images. A great example of this is the massive success and impact of OnlyFans, which speaks to a shift in who owns the means of production and distribution for images that activate desire. What does desire look like in this accelerated hyper-digital world? These days, the line between civilian and sex worker is not as sharply drawn as it was ten or fifteen years ago. Much of that is thanks to Grey, whose success across a variety of creative mediums helped normalize the idea that pornstars are people with talents, abilities, and interests outside of having sex on camera. First came aTelecine, Grey’s experimental noise collaboration, followed by a buzzy transition into mainstream acting—landing the lead role in Steven Soderbergh’s 2009 indie drama, The Girlfriend Experience. She’s also published a photobook, a series of novels, and toured as an international DJ. Recently, Grey’s taken to Twitch, where she streams gameplays and cooking segments to an audience of over 670,000. I think the powerful thing about porn is that it is the one industry where women as performers are the dominant figures. But then at the end of the day, who owns those companies? Men.”–Sasha Grey Isabella: It makes me comment on the projections [people make]. I make fun of it [in my music]. People are like, ‘Wait, wait, wait, are you making fun of me? Are you agreeing with me?’I’m trying to be the star I was envisioning, or the girl I needed, when I was young.”—Isabella Lovestory

Isabella: People don’t know how to really be personable or social anymore. Social media can be so fake. First of all, [people] believe everything they read, then they cancel people. It’s like they get this fake rulebook of who’s a good person and who’s a bad person. That’s [what I like about] music. It’s so accessible—everybody can heal through it and everybody can connect through it. It’s not elitist. Coming from Honduras, I feel like music is the most healing thing for communities and for people to connect to each other. We’re regressing in a way. I think the mainstream media has a lot to do with that—they don’t focus on positive stories. When they decide to focus on [sex], it’s either done in the same way that it’s always been done, in a negative light, or it’s done as a marketing tool to say, ‘Yeah, we support queer people.’ Isabella: It’s [all] so destroyed by the algorithm and censorship. What is the ultimate social media? Where is it going? I think it’s all about [finding] ways of making things tangible and easier to absorb because now everything’s so fast. You can’t fully grasp art in the way that it should be. Isabella: People don’t understand the absurdity of it—they just see all these images of overly sexualized aesthetics that are popular right now. They reproduce it without understanding what it really means. I think you have to have experience to know how to portray what you mean.Sasha: I think, culturally, we’re living in a moment I’ve dubbed stripper chic. It’s taking over everything. It’s even taken over the fashion industry; it’s taken over every aesthetic aspect of how people are presenting themselves. My worry is that people are depicting themselves in a certain way, but they’re not really understanding of their own sexuality or of other people’s. So it just [becomes] an image, and by not having these conversations about sex, [we’re] just perpetuating an aesthetic. Isabella: With the internet, it’s so hard to own everything you put out. You’re always going to get misinterpreted and misused. Sasha: It’s anecdotal, but I have friends who are queer that have had to leave their countries because they don’t feel that they can even progress in their careers. Isabella: That’s a big problem in Honduras. It’s like you either die or you kill yourself if you’re queer.

Isabella: It’s such propaganda. There are so many more ways to make a change in real life with these issues and to actually heal people. It’s so performative to always be talking about all these issues [only] online. The porn legend and reggaeton pop princess on sexuality, art in the attention economy, and making their Catholic guilt work for themBiz: You make music that’s meant to be danced to. I feel like that urge is like an innate tactility. Anything that compels you to move is a rare and special thing now. Biz: Sasha, you were raised Catholic, and Isabella, you’re from Honduras, where there’s a strong Catholic influence. You also incorporate Christian iconography into some of your imagery. Did these early influences shape you? Were they a point of rebellion? Biz Sherbert: Something you two have in common is that you’re not afraid to work in extremes or beyond norms, particularly when it comes to expressions of desire. How do you see the role of sexuality in your work?